Portal
Below a summary of a proposal and the debate that followed. This English version is to allow more people to join the debates.
On the 2nd of April, the comrade alberto.a has made the following proposal in Spanish (cf. https://luxemburgism.forumotion.com/about-the-forum-f22/propuesta-de-discutir-un-tema-central-ademas-de-los-envios-diarios-t584.htm) :
He then proposed the following topics of discussion :
The comrades agreeing this far are :
tania2 : she agrees but she explained that she doesn't participate in the Forum on a daily basis. Nevertheless, she has got a draft in relation to the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism based on a previous thread discussed in the Forum in English. She proposes to wrap up what she's got and send it to the forum.
Also, she proposes to publish a text based on the discussion we have in the forum.
Luxemburguista : he proposes that we take as a basis what has already been discussed in the forum and other places (blogs, websites...).
He goes on to say that some topics would be interesting to some people and not to others. For example, he considers that the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism. He thinks that what has been presented in our websites is enough and doesn't need further discussion (even though he does think that we should that topic in regards to current event like the case of the NPA in France). Nevertheless, on a general ground the relation between Luxemburgism and Trostkysm today has already been discussed and it would be more useful to discuss its relation to other currents such as Left Communism.
As to the second topic (1. Luxemburgism and power), it is related to the second one and needs to be further detailed as to what should be debated.
He feels that the last topic 3. Luxemburgism and the current worldwide capitalist crisis is the most interesting and the most relevant for today's world. The "orthodox" Marxist theories explain very little and reject Rosa Luxemburg's contribution. They seem to leave the possibility for Capitalism to survive its own contradictions.
However, he wouldn't participate in elaborating a text to be published further on by a group (Tania's idea). He explained that he had left the ILN and AP, as for the latter precisely because they gave priority to discussion on specific issues rather than on setting up an organization (more or less structured). He agrees to debate but he doesn't believe it would be interesting to publish conclusions without linking it to an organizational process, the building of a political current.
JM Delgado : the comrade has expressed his approval for Alberto's idea. He is interested in the first question (1. Luxemburgism and power), he participated in discussions related to this in the Forum, but he still has questions and doubts that remain.
As for the second one (2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism), he agrees with Luxemburguista : he believes the topic has discussed enough in the forum. But he points out to a question not discussed : how leninism tries to manipulate nationalist movements building a bridge from proletarian internationalism and plain nationalism, disguised as internationalist marxist postulates.
In regards to the third proposal (3. Luxemburgism and the current worldwide capitalist crisis, he also agrees with Luxemburguista in the fact that it would the most interesting topic, but he currently doesn't feel too much in writing about it.
Finaly, he also proposes to publish the final document in a blog like Marxismo Libertario. This would be free and independent of any organization or group. Thanks to the RSS feeds, the updates from the forum would be included in the blog.
Hasek : he would be interested by the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism and the different points of view of Lenin and Luxemburg. Another topic that could be interesting would be 4. Internationalism and the national question.
alberto.a : the comrades proposes, based on what had been discussed earlier, to unite the topics 1 and 2 so as to have 1. Luxemburgism and power – 2. Luxemburgism againts the present worldwide capitalist crisis
For the first point, he proposes to begin with the texts of Rosa Luxemburg on the question up to the sentence in which she says in « this aspect the future belongs to Bolshevism ». This topic would include the questions on Bolshevism, authoritariansim, power, the taking of the power, the war, imperialism... He identifies those who see Rosa Luxemburg as a « pure » marxist, those that imagine a desired Rosa Luxemburg and Luxemburgism and (of greater importance) those not knowing what Marxism and Luxemburgism are. We must find answers and solutions to today's poverty and questions relating to it, studying the actual reality of organizations, politics and economics.
He also points out that some of us consider both the Trotskysts and the anarchists as « brothers » and asks « is Luxemburgism just some kind of marxist middle way in between authoritarians and anti-authoritarians (…) or something much greater than that? »
He also sees it hard to reach a final answer on these questions as said by Luxemburguista.
As for the second point (2. Luxemburgism against the present worldwide capitalist crisis), he thinks that most people would only be able to read and listen than to actually discuss. This would not stop from participating in the discussion as a debate among specialists would kill the quality of the discussion and the latter is not simply supposed to be based on declarations but also on questions and doubts.
He also says that discussions can take place simultaneously.
Luxemburguista : he agrees with alberto.a that discussing power would lead to discussing Bolshevism but he doesn't draw his conclusion on Bolshevism from the mentioned sentence of Rosa Luxemburg in The Russian revolution, but rather on her works in general and above all on what happened later.
ElIndio : he agrees with the idea and proposes another topic of discussion : 5. Luxemburgism and organization. The point would be to analyze how Luxemburgists can best organize, specially in the face of the current crisis, and taking lessons from what has been done so far (Alternativa Proletaria, Democracia Comunista and the ILN).
He thinks that Luxemburguista is right when he says that some discussions would interest some and not others : that is because people coming to the forum have different background. Especially, newcomers would be interested in the topic on Bolshevism while people more experienced would think it is dealt with.
He also believes that it would be great to have discussion in different languages.
He also agrees on the idea of Tania to have a document published on what has been debated.
He proposes that a vote is made to pick the topic of debate.
alberto.a : he agrees with ElIndio on the newcomers and the voting.
[b]Klaudio : he believes that the first topic (1. Luxemburgism and power) is also linked to the question of organization asking : « with who should we organize? », « in what organization should we be part of ? »...
As for the topic on Bolshevism, he also thinks that it has been debated a lot but maybe it should better presented.
On the 2nd of April, the comrade alberto.a has made the following proposal in Spanish (cf. https://luxemburgism.forumotion.com/about-the-forum-f22/propuesta-de-discutir-un-tema-central-ademas-de-los-envios-diarios-t584.htm) :
alberto.a wrote:I propose to select A MAIN TOPIC of discussion regularly (WITHOUT STOPING TO SHARE OTHER TOPICS AND INFORMATIONS depending on what each one thinks it is interesting to discuss).
To select a topic or issue among all of us that we can choose depending on what is worrying or catching the attention of the members and visitors of this Forum.
He then proposed the following topics of discussion :
alberto.a wrote:1. Luxemburgism and power
2.Luxemburgism and Bolshevism
3.Luxemburgism and the current worldwide capitalist crisis
The comrades agreeing this far are :
tania2 : she agrees but she explained that she doesn't participate in the Forum on a daily basis. Nevertheless, she has got a draft in relation to the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism based on a previous thread discussed in the Forum in English. She proposes to wrap up what she's got and send it to the forum.
Also, she proposes to publish a text based on the discussion we have in the forum.
Luxemburguista : he proposes that we take as a basis what has already been discussed in the forum and other places (blogs, websites...).
He goes on to say that some topics would be interesting to some people and not to others. For example, he considers that the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism. He thinks that what has been presented in our websites is enough and doesn't need further discussion (even though he does think that we should that topic in regards to current event like the case of the NPA in France). Nevertheless, on a general ground the relation between Luxemburgism and Trostkysm today has already been discussed and it would be more useful to discuss its relation to other currents such as Left Communism.
As to the second topic (1. Luxemburgism and power), it is related to the second one and needs to be further detailed as to what should be debated.
He feels that the last topic 3. Luxemburgism and the current worldwide capitalist crisis is the most interesting and the most relevant for today's world. The "orthodox" Marxist theories explain very little and reject Rosa Luxemburg's contribution. They seem to leave the possibility for Capitalism to survive its own contradictions.
However, he wouldn't participate in elaborating a text to be published further on by a group (Tania's idea). He explained that he had left the ILN and AP, as for the latter precisely because they gave priority to discussion on specific issues rather than on setting up an organization (more or less structured). He agrees to debate but he doesn't believe it would be interesting to publish conclusions without linking it to an organizational process, the building of a political current.
JM Delgado : the comrade has expressed his approval for Alberto's idea. He is interested in the first question (1. Luxemburgism and power), he participated in discussions related to this in the Forum, but he still has questions and doubts that remain.
As for the second one (2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism), he agrees with Luxemburguista : he believes the topic has discussed enough in the forum. But he points out to a question not discussed : how leninism tries to manipulate nationalist movements building a bridge from proletarian internationalism and plain nationalism, disguised as internationalist marxist postulates.
In regards to the third proposal (3. Luxemburgism and the current worldwide capitalist crisis, he also agrees with Luxemburguista in the fact that it would the most interesting topic, but he currently doesn't feel too much in writing about it.
Finaly, he also proposes to publish the final document in a blog like Marxismo Libertario. This would be free and independent of any organization or group. Thanks to the RSS feeds, the updates from the forum would be included in the blog.
Hasek : he would be interested by the topic 2. Luxemburgism and Bolshevism and the different points of view of Lenin and Luxemburg. Another topic that could be interesting would be 4. Internationalism and the national question.
alberto.a : the comrades proposes, based on what had been discussed earlier, to unite the topics 1 and 2 so as to have 1. Luxemburgism and power – 2. Luxemburgism againts the present worldwide capitalist crisis
For the first point, he proposes to begin with the texts of Rosa Luxemburg on the question up to the sentence in which she says in « this aspect the future belongs to Bolshevism ». This topic would include the questions on Bolshevism, authoritariansim, power, the taking of the power, the war, imperialism... He identifies those who see Rosa Luxemburg as a « pure » marxist, those that imagine a desired Rosa Luxemburg and Luxemburgism and (of greater importance) those not knowing what Marxism and Luxemburgism are. We must find answers and solutions to today's poverty and questions relating to it, studying the actual reality of organizations, politics and economics.
He also points out that some of us consider both the Trotskysts and the anarchists as « brothers » and asks « is Luxemburgism just some kind of marxist middle way in between authoritarians and anti-authoritarians (…) or something much greater than that? »
He also sees it hard to reach a final answer on these questions as said by Luxemburguista.
As for the second point (2. Luxemburgism against the present worldwide capitalist crisis), he thinks that most people would only be able to read and listen than to actually discuss. This would not stop from participating in the discussion as a debate among specialists would kill the quality of the discussion and the latter is not simply supposed to be based on declarations but also on questions and doubts.
He also says that discussions can take place simultaneously.
Luxemburguista : he agrees with alberto.a that discussing power would lead to discussing Bolshevism but he doesn't draw his conclusion on Bolshevism from the mentioned sentence of Rosa Luxemburg in The Russian revolution, but rather on her works in general and above all on what happened later.
ElIndio : he agrees with the idea and proposes another topic of discussion : 5. Luxemburgism and organization. The point would be to analyze how Luxemburgists can best organize, specially in the face of the current crisis, and taking lessons from what has been done so far (Alternativa Proletaria, Democracia Comunista and the ILN).
He thinks that Luxemburguista is right when he says that some discussions would interest some and not others : that is because people coming to the forum have different background. Especially, newcomers would be interested in the topic on Bolshevism while people more experienced would think it is dealt with.
He also believes that it would be great to have discussion in different languages.
He also agrees on the idea of Tania to have a document published on what has been debated.
He proposes that a vote is made to pick the topic of debate.
alberto.a : he agrees with ElIndio on the newcomers and the voting.
[b]Klaudio : he believes that the first topic (1. Luxemburgism and power) is also linked to the question of organization asking : « with who should we organize? », « in what organization should we be part of ? »...
As for the topic on Bolshevism, he also thinks that it has been debated a lot but maybe it should better presented.
» Frente Anticapitalista Verde: Manifiesto - Green Anti-Capitalist Front: Manifesto
» Las ideologías identitarias: La trampa de la diversidad
» 1 de Mayo: Viva la lucha de la clase obrera
» Campaña de la CGT contra la ley de mutuas
» Rosa Luxemburg: la llama ardiente de la revolución
» Al fascismo no se le combate votando
» A Green New Deal vs. Revolutionary Ecosocialism
» La era del pánico climático está aquí