International Luxemburgist Forum - Foro Luxemburguista Internacional - Forum Luxemburgiste Intl

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International Luxemburgist Forum - Foro Luxemburguista Internacional - Forum Luxemburgiste Intl

Forum for those in general agreement with the ideas of Rosa Luxemburg.
Foro para aquellos que tienen un acuerdo general con las ideas de Rosa Luxemburgo.
Forum pour ceux qui ont un accord général avec les idées de Rosa Luxembourg.

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» Carta abierta a Extinción Rebelión - Open Letter to Extinction Rebellion
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySun Jun 02, 2019 3:20 am by luxemburguista

» Frente Anticapitalista Verde: Manifiesto - Green Anti-Capitalist Front: Manifesto
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySat Jun 01, 2019 11:11 am by luxemburguista

» Las ideologías identitarias: La trampa de la diversidad
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptyWed May 29, 2019 11:44 am by luxemburguista

» 1 de Mayo: Viva la lucha de la clase obrera
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySun Apr 28, 2019 3:47 am by luxemburguista

» Campaña de la CGT contra la ley de mutuas
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySun Apr 28, 2019 3:40 am by luxemburguista

» Rosa Luxemburg: la llama ardiente de la revolución
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptyTue Mar 26, 2019 12:46 pm by luxemburguista

» Al fascismo no se le combate votando
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySat Mar 23, 2019 2:22 am by luxemburguista

» A Green New Deal vs. Revolutionary Ecosocialism
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySat Mar 09, 2019 4:33 am by luxemburguista

» La era del pánico climático está aquí
Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista EmptySat Mar 02, 2019 5:44 am by luxemburguista

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    Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista

    luxemburguista
    luxemburguista
    Admin


    Number of posts : 1129
    Group : Alternativa Roja y Verde - Los Alternativos
    Website : http://altermundialistas.wordpress.com/
    Registration date : 2008-04-16

    Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista Empty Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista

    Post  luxemburguista Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:48 am

    The Ecosocialist International Network will distribute a text in the next World Social Forum in Belem, Brazil, in January 2009. It can be signed in his web:
    http://www.ecosocialistnetwork.org/index.htm

    La Red Ecosocialista Internacional distribuirá un texto en el próximo Foro Social Mundial que se celebrará en Belem, Brasil, en Enero. Puede firmarse a través de su web.

    SALUD
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    EricL


    Number of posts : 53
    Registration date : 2008-04-19

    Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista Empty Re: Ecosocialist Declaration - Declaración Ecosocialista

    Post  EricL Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:31 am

    The whole notion promoted in this manifesto that, on the one hand, there are “limits to growth” and that, on the other, capitalism has an unlimited tendency towards growth in production is contradicted by experience. Growth is not some strange attribute of capitalism—it is a characteristic of all living processes (and indeed of many inanimate processes as well.) Life and the entire ecosystem of the Earth exist only because it is able to grow and stay far from equilibrium. Living systems approach equilibrium only when they die.

    As well, the present crisis shows dramatically that capitalism does not induce unlimited growth in production. The problem today is scarcely one of excessive growth of production! Currently, production is plummeting at a rate unprecedented at any time in the past century, even including the Great Depression. Over a longer period, per-capita world production of such essential industrial products as steel has been declining for over a generation.

    Nor is it true that there are some inherent limits to growth, as Malthus argued two centuries ago and as was revived by the notorious capitalist think tank ”The Club of Rome” in the late ‘60’s. The technology exists today to greatly increase production of goods while reducing pollution and resource consumption though “closed system” recycling. Energy, too, can be recycled and reused to a large extent. While existing energy technology—including solar—is not sufficient to provide a decent standard of living to all people, that goal could be achieved with technologies, such as nuclear fusion, that are being researched today. I myself am involved in such research. Such technology can provide “cheap, clean and unlimited” energy.

    What capitalism does require is the continual growth of profit, not production. Luxemburg demonstrated that this requires a continual increase in new non-capitalist markets, which is impossible given the finite number of people in the world. That is capitalism’s “limit to growth”. Socialism know no such limit and indeed is capable of increasing production greatly to provide for the billions who lack basic food, clothing, housing and sanitation, while at the same time cleaning up the pollution, waste and ecological destruction caused by capitalism, not by growth.

    Because of the misconceptions about growth, this manifesto provides no comprehension of the current period, in which production is clearly declining not growing. Still more seriously, the “limits to growth” argument can provide, and has in the past provided, a justification for decreases in working class standards of living.
    We do need articles that relate the current development of capitalism to ecological damage, but this manifesto does not go in the right direction, in my opinion. I would be interested to find out what others think. If there is sufficient interest, perhaps we could have a debate on this in Mass Strike.
    Nestor Makhno
    Nestor Makhno


    Number of posts : 96
    Registration date : 2008-08-11

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    Post  Nestor Makhno Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:26 pm

    Because of the misconceptions about growth, this manifesto provides no comprehension of the current period, in which production is clearly declining not growing. Still more seriously, the “limits to growth” argument can provide, and has in the past provided, a justification for decreases in working class standards of living.
    We do need articles that relate the current development of capitalism to ecological damage, but this manifesto does not go in the right direction, in my opinion. I would be interested to find out what others think. If there is sufficient interest, perhaps we could have a debate on this in Mass Strike.

    I support this point of view. I don`t deny, at absolute terms, that may be "limits of growth" but is not the present problem. Now the problem is that growth in Capitalism is a blind tendency based in acumulation not in the real needings of people. This absolute comdemn of "growth" or "consumism" could develop blame the workers of developed world by his economic struggle. Or, worst, be useful for stalinism to justify the "equalitarism of sub-consume" of countries like Cuba. I say so cos I have heard that arguments.

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